The Fundamental Injustice of Life

[Renegnicat]

I've noticed there's been more threads created as of late. Glad that is so.

Anyway, this has really bugged me. I was under arrest a while back for something stupid that I don't really feel like describing, but anyway, the security guard told me this, "The key to solving life is to 1. fear god and 2.keep his commandments.

That really pissed me off, because it, to me, ignores completely the most fundamental injustice of humanity. The one problem that not even atheists can solve. What's worse, most people don't even see this as a problem. I guess I'm just more sensitive than most.

I'm talking about the fact that as humans, we care... we can only care about others we know. Transference allows us to care about others just as much as we care about ourselves, yes. But in order for that transference to work, we must share experiences, goals, with the people we come to care about.

A professor of mine died as little as two days ago, and as much as there was an outpouring of sentiment at her death, there was also a mass indifference. Towards her, towards myself. The fundamnetal injustice of the universe is that there is only so many connections we can make before our ability to empathise breaks down.

And yet everyone on this planet feels life to such an extent that it is completely ridiculous that any one person can not feel a thing for another's life. It makes me upset and frustrated, because I know that I can never know everyone on this planet, even though everyone deserves to be known.

everyone deserves to be known. Being is, in essence, a beacon, but all beacon's are worthless when there are no ships upon the sea. And it upsets me to no end, knowing that this is so cruel, so unjust. The fact that we are physiologically limited in our ability to care for others is, to me, nature's last laugh.

[LARA]

Whenever I personify nature, looking at it in terms of what I want or don't want, or in your case just or unjust, the world seems like a hellishly shitty place.  Reality is that the majority of this is just senseless.  It's not just or unjust, it's senseless, unconscious.  The only right and wrong is made by the thinking beings that evolved in it.  We have created a construction of justice to help us survive, our survival has allowed us to ponder more and more complex things, to be confused. Death is so final, the loss of a persons memory and being crystallizes our ultimate aloneness and mortality in this whole crazy mess, and we seek to create fairness around it.  The atoms are very fair, they cannot be created or destroyed, one action has an equal and opposite reaction and so on and so forth.  The physical world is governed by rules that can't be broken.  Our memories help us to survive and to learn, our imaginations help us to survive times of boredom or extreme psychological duress, but out of our memory and imagination we create an unreal world, with unreal expectations.  We are the ones who are unfair.  We are the ones who construct imperfect justice.  We are the ones who expect the world to behave differently for us alone.  And there is always grief when the reality of this comes to call on us.  Nothing is permanent.

[Kylyssa]

everyone deserves to be known. Being is, in essence, a beacon, but all beacon's are worthless when there are no ships upon the sea.

A lovely sentiment.

[Renegnicat]

I just wanna be loved!!! WAAAH!  :hissyfit:  :drool

[Vire70]

Whenever I personify nature, looking at it in terms of what I want or don't want, or in your case just or unjust, the world seems like a hellishly shitty place.  Reality is that the majority of this is just senseless.  It's not just or unjust, it's senseless, unconscious.  The only right and wrong is made by the thinking beings that evolved in it.  We have created a construction of justice to help us survive, our survival has allowed us to ponder more and more complex things, to be confused. Death is so final, the loss of a persons memory and being crystallizes our ultimate aloneness and mortality in this whole crazy mess, and we seek to create fairness around it.  The atoms are very fair, they cannot be created or destroyed, one action has an equal and opposite reaction and so on and so forth.  The physical world is governed by rules that can't be broken.  Our memories help us to survive and to learn, our imaginations help us to survive times of boredom or extreme psychological duress, but out of our memory and imagination we create an unreal world, with unreal expectations.  We are the ones who are unfair.  We are the ones who construct imperfect justice.  We are the ones who expect the world to behave differently for us alone.  And there is always grief when the reality of this comes to call on us.  Nothing is permanent.

Though I don't really have anything meaningful to contribute, I just wanted to say I wholeheartedly agree with LARA. Pretty much said it all.

[Big Mac]

I've noticed there's been more threads created as of late. Glad that is so.

Anyway, this has really bugged me. I was under arrest a while back for something stupid that I don't really feel like describing, but anyway, the security guard told me this, "The key to solving life is to 1. fear god and 2.keep his commandments.

That really pissed me off, because it, to me, ignores completely the most fundamental injustice of humanity. The one problem that not even atheists can solve. What's worse, most people don't even see this as a problem. I guess I'm just more sensitive than most.

I'm talking about the fact that as humans, we care... we can only care about others we know. Transference allows us to care about others just as much as we care about ourselves, yes. But in order for that transference to work, we must share experiences, goals, with the people we come to care about.

A professor of mine died as little as two days ago, and as much as there was an outpouring of sentiment at her death, there was also a mass indifference. Towards her, towards myself. The fundamnetal injustice of the universe is that there is only so many connections we can make before our ability to empathise breaks down.

And yet everyone on this planet feels life to such an extent that it is completely ridiculous that any one person can not feel a thing for another's life. It makes me upset and frustrated, because I know that I can never know everyone on this planet, even though everyone deserves to be known.

everyone deserves to be known. Being is, in essence, a beacon, but all beacon's are worthless when there are no ships upon the sea. And it upsets me to no end, knowing that this is so cruel, so unjust. The fact that we are physiologically limited in our ability to care for others is, to me, nature's last laugh.

Sorry to hear about your professor but the reason people were indifferent is because of the fact they probably didn't know her too well, they had to move on with their studies, and frankly it was someone that didn't create a big empty space in their life.

I don't understand your frustration of not knowing everyone on this planet. That's 6 BILLION plus different flavors of people to deal with. I have trouble remembering a few people's names, I'd hate to have to know an exponential amount more.

I disagree with the whole "Everyone deserves to be known" bit. People are recognized on their achievements. The ones who survive in memory have done something really amazing. No one gets rewarded for leading a mediocre life.

I think you make it cruel with your own perception. It's just how life works. I'm kind of glad it does because it would make being ambitious pointless and nothing would get done. Why try to achieve anything if you are recognized as much as the bum on the street who doesn't do anything useful?

I'm curious as to what you did for a guard to arrest you. You can only be arrested by a security guard for felonies. That meant he did a citizen's arrest.

[LARA]

Renegnicat wrote: god, I sound like a buddhist.  

I think we all kind of do sometimes in here.  

I wonder if it's because of the fundamental appeal of Buddhism to a Western atheist simply as something different from Judaism/Christianity or is it a real inherent truth in some of the philosophical viewpoints and psychological usefulness of Buddhism?

Thanks, Vire70.

[Big Mac]

I myself enjoy the tenets of each religion. Christianity has some good ones as does Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. A sort of medley of values that appeal to me. I think it appeals to a lot of western atheists because it doesn't get tainted with the whole "Well God said I could do this bad act because it's written in xyz" routine used to justify atrocities.

[Renegnicat]

Hey, big mac. I can't see your avatar. Probably something wrong with the way you uploaded it.

Well, I kind of came these buddhist sounding conclusions independently of actually becoming a buddhist. It was only afterwards that I realized how my beliefs fell in line very well with a lot of buddhist thought. Except for the whole "enlightenment thing". That's just silly.

Also, Big Mac, I guess I see it as sad not because it's not possible, but because, to me, at least, it seems like a basis for unfairness. What I mean is that someone could have been an exceptional person, yet someone wouldn't care about their death because they didn't know them. Yet, if that person was exceptional...then is it not unfair to not only no recognize that, but to assume the worst about her, as so many people usually do?

My point is that recognition isn't concrete. It's very flimsy. I'm not saying that people should be rewarded for a mediocre life, far from it. But in a world where all but the greatest among us are never recognized as anything more than blips on the radar, it impresses itself upon my senses overwhelmingly of that search for man to be recognized by the universe. And eventually, when we've all died out and there are no more humans anywhere, how can it be so that nothing will ever know?

Maybe to the universe, that's not unjust. But in the eye of the human, it is a very big struggle. A very sad state of affairs.  

[Big Mac]

I think it's very humbling to know that no matter what we do, we are a speck in a sea of vibrant existence. We are born, we live, and we die. What we do in the middle of that list is up to us. One day we all die and yes, we will most likely be forgotten many years later when everyone who knew us personally is also dead. What lives on is what we did in our short time, what joy, sorrow, pain, health, love, etc. we spread/received and what we left for future generations that will succeed us. I find comfort in knowing that I will have my small part in all of that and even if I fuck up, at least there is enough people to offset it.

I'm sorry for that woman's passing but such is the way of life. Sadly too many people die everyday and we cannot mourn them collectively. There is a time for all things. Time to weep, time to laugh, time to plant, time to uproot, etc.

And from the same book (Ecclesiastes): Rejoice young man, in thy youth.

[Ellainix]

I love your idea! I was homeschooled most of my life, and never really attached to many people anyways. So you are saying I could potentially have more empathy than most people?

I just wanna be loved!!! WAAAH!  :hissyfit:  :drool

What's wrong with that?  

I wonder if it's because of the fundamental appeal of Buddhism to a Western atheist simply as something different from Judaism/Christianity or is it a real inherent truth in some of the philosophical viewpoints and psychological usefulness of Buddhism?

I signed up because I was hoping someone would convince me Buddhism was flawed.

[Renegnicat]

I signed up because I was hoping someone would convince me Buddhism was flawed.

It's certainly not perfect.  

[Ellainix]

I signed up because I was hoping someone would convince me Buddhism was flawed.

It's certainly not perfect.  

Alright. I'm convinced. Time to sell all my statues and books.

[LoneMateria]

I signed up because I was hoping someone would convince me Buddhism was flawed.

I can't speak for everyone but i'm pretty sure most of us have little experience with Buddhism.  What I know of Buddhism is from my college course Philosophy of Religion.  I know there are many types of Buddhists.  I have an idea if you really want to.  Start a new thread about what you believe and why and we can try to spot what we see as flawed ^_^

Also I too don't agree with the everyone deserves to be known thing.  The great people live on in history and the mediocre fade away.  It is what it is.  The classics are a good example of this.  In the Iliad you don't remember the slaves that fought these battles, their names, their stories.  You only remember the princes, the kings, the gods and their children.  Hector the mightiest warrior of Ilium(Troy) and its prince fought with some slaves, some men of non royal linage.  The characters deemed important live in history.  If you want to be remembered then you need to make an impact on this world.  Strive to be great, only you can do it.

[Renegnicat]

Just where would hector and agamnemnus be without all their slaves and underfooters?